The Armenia-EU relations are on a historic high, Armenian Ambassador to Greece and Albania Tigran Mkrtchyan has said.

Mkrtchyan was hosted by the leading Cypriot media outlet Financial Mirror’s “Off the wall” podcast where he spoke about the relationship between Armenia and Cyprus, ties with the EU and other developments.

Below is the full transcript published by the Armenian Embassy in Greece.

Host: Welcome to “Off the Wall”. Our guest today-it’s a privilege to have with us, the Ambassador of Armenia to Cyprus, Greece, and Albania, His Excellency Mr. Tigran Mkrtchyan. His visit to Cyprus coincides, with the change of status, which doesn’t happen very often. We are very pleased to be informed that Armenia will be appointing a new, and for the first time, a resident ambassador to Cyprus. So, Ambassador Mkrtchyan will remain in residence in Athens, with the responsibilities, covering Greece and Albania. Mr. Mkrtchyan, welcome back.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Thank you very much, Massis, for hosting me again. Nice to see you again.

Host: Do tell us, we have a new ambassador for Cyprus. For Cyprus, this is a historic event, and, we will be seeing a new, a fresh face, Mrs. Inna Torgomyan, who I understand is a career diplomat, with, the past few years, working as head of the Public diplomacy department in the Foreign Ministry in Yerevan, in addition to other diplomatic postings that she’s had in the past. So, considering that, you are leaving your Cyprus post, and focusing more on Greece and Albania, what do you think this could mean for, Cyprus-Armenia relations?

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Let me emphasize that this is a long-overdue development, actually, because we have been talking about, or discussing, the necessity of Armenia’s presence in Cyprus on an ambassadorial position, with an embassy, a resident embassy, for three decades. A lot of my colleagues in the ministry, even before—long before I was a member of the diplomatic community in Armenia, had been discussing and talking about the necessity of Armenia having an embassy, a resident embassy, in Cyprus.

And I know that this has been a topic of talk in the corridors of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Cyprus as well, regarding reciprocation in Armenia. And, fortunately, over the recent years, these talks, were accelerated and got materialized, thanks to the agreement between the two ministers of foreign affairs of Cyprus and Armenia.

And I’m very happy that I also was as much contributing to this as, as possible, and it happened. Cyprus appointed an ambassador who has been in Armenia for already, I think, four, five months. Ambassador Mavros Michalis was appointed in September if I’m not mistaken. And then, yes, and, just recently, my colleague, career diplomat, a friend, Mrs. Inna Torgomyan, was appointed as ambassador to Cyprus. And she’ll be arriving, I think, in the coming few weeks. And, she will proceed from where we have, in a way, left our work, but on a new, completely fresh basis, with a different status, a much more enhanced status. This was a necessity, as I say, long overdue.

Cyprus has been a very close friend of Armenia and Armenians for centuries. And, of course, it was much expected by everybody in Cyprus and in Armenia that this development would be materialized.

Host: Yes. Well, on a practical sense, there will be—I wouldn’t say rapid developments—but we will see things moving faster because having a resident ambassador, you can get things done much faster and going straight to the source. Certainly. And Cyprus, being as well as Greece, where I see that you’re very, very active in the Greek political, cultural, and economic scene, does this also mean that the already, warm and close relations between Cyprus and Armenia, will be enhanced even further, considering that both through your experience in Greece, your previous experience in the Baltics, and now, in Cyprus, with the new ambassador, we will see, even stronger relations, not only Armenia-Cyprus but Armenia-EU?

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Very interesting question and very important, actually, because Armenia and Armenian-European relations, right now, are on a historic high, top level of relations. Never has, in the past, the level of our relations been so intense and so close, and, and on a qualitatively, definitely, on a very high level.

On various levels the developments have matured, of course, on the political level, it’s very important. We have, been actively engaged in our cooperation with the EU within the frames of the CEPA, the Comprehensive and Enhanced Partnership Agreement, which was the framework of our cooperation, but now we are talking already about enhancing this, engagement, with the with the new partnership agreement, which is being been negotiated.

Having said that, we should also emphasize a few other developments that have happened over the past few years or few months. For example, the ratification of the Rome Statute was very important, or, the Europol or Eurojust agreements. Also, Armenia’s joining of the Common Aviation Area. Armenia’s been granted with the European Peace Facility, very important. The EU Mission of Armenia monitoring the border areas with Azerbaijan, very important, which has been prolonged for another two years. Just recently, it was done, and, and despite the somewhat, not very much encouraging approach of Azerbaijan, the EU had a united position on this and we have this mission being prolonged. which is of utmost importance in terms of also security for Armenia.

So, all of these are developments which are impossible not to take into account. And, of course, the launch of the visa liberalization, the VLD process, which hopefully will mature. I mean the negotiations are to be conducted in the coming months, years, maybe, but hopefully the sooner, the better, because, this will immensely contribute to the people-to-people contact between Armenia and the EU. So all of these are extremely important developments.

But also, let’s take into account what has been happening, what has been the view of the society. The various surveys that have been conducted in Armenia over the past, several years indicate that the Armenian society is very much, proving or showing, that the country’s moving in European direction, getting closer to Europe, let’s say, adhering to European values and European reforms.

Yes, so this is a very clear, very important message, which was reflected in the past few months. There was a civilian initiative, launched in Armenia about suggesting the government to launch a process of Armenia’s membership in the EU and the civilian initiative got more than needed signatures. So, I think there was a need for 50,000 signatures, but they got within a very short period 60,000 and this proposal was tabled to the government. The government discussed and approved, and apparently, it was sent to the parliament for discussion. And just two days ago, the parliament, in its first reading, approved this resolution about the initiative.

Of course, this entails a lot of work, a lot of homework, a lot of bureaucracy, but who says that everything is going to be easy? Nobody says that it’s going to be easy. We have to pass this route, yes, as difficult as it may be. But I think this is for the welfare of Armenians and the welfare and future prosperity of Armenia in general. So, these are the developments that we need to take into account. These are very important developments.

And, of course, I completely agree with you that, our bilateral relations between Armenia and Cyprus and Armenia and Greece are extremely important in this, in the dynamic processes taking place in the relations between Armenia and the EU, since Greece and Cyprus are essential partners of Armenia in the EU as well, very important partners, big supporters of Armenia, in all discussions related to Armenia within this institution.

Host: Well, of all your meetings in Cyprus, I’m sure that you’ve always received a warm welcome, almost brotherly, both on a political and diplomatic level. What do you take away from your, shall we say, past, responsibility out of Cyprus? It’s not just handshakes and a pat on the back. I’m sure there has been a lot of contribution, a lot of direction, a lot of assistance, helping in diplomatic and other channels.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: As I said, Cyprus has been of immense support to Armenia, in our relations. We have never encountered the word “no”. And this has been reciprocated. And Armenia has been always standing by Cyprus, be that on bilateral or on international, multilateral formats, discussions related, and topics related to Cyprus. So I had already meetings with the President of Cyprus, the Foreign Minister of Cyprus, the permanent secretary of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and, the speaker, the President of the House of Representatives, as well as the Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee, and who is also the Head of the Armenia-Cyprus Friendship Committee.

And, also I had one interesting meeting with the Cyprus Institute, with which I will propose the Armenians to investigate more in terms of enhancing cooperation in the scientific field with Cyprus. So, in all those meetings, what I can underline as running as a red line was that Cyprus is encouraging Armenia’s reforms agenda, is standing by Armenia’s adherence to peaceful development of the region of the South Caucasus, is supporting its initiatives, including its initiative, for example, the Crossroads of Peace. But not only the Crossroads of Peace. Armenia’s stance is very much a constructive stance vis-à-vis its neighbours, is welcomed, by the Cypriot colleagues.

Ideally, we would imagine that our relations are of strategic partnership level, yeah, but this needs to be materialized in the future, in terms of further development of certain areas. There is a lot of very constructive and healthy dialogue in the sphere of defence sector, and I’m very proud about that. I’m very glad, to have contributed in a way to this process, also linking with Greece.

So, there has been trilateral cooperation in the defence sector—Cyprus, Greece, Armenia—and probably the defence sector cooperation needs to be taken as an example of, in terms of its action plans, annual meetings, regular, consultations…very intense engagement. Yes, this could be taken as an example, and probably projected into other areas, where we need to work intensely, be that tourism,  in which there is a lot of development, by the way.

Host: Yes, recently, we’ve seen a lot of people just choosing Armenia as a destination of choice, as opposed to just friends or relatives. True, that’s true.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Be that in, academic and, scientific research cooperation, a lot of huge potential. We see cultural, of course, cooperation, new technologies. This is something that Cyprus prides itself in, and also Armenia is very much proud of its achievements in this sphere. So, we have a lot that needs to be materialized, concretely, in terms of meetings, regular meetings, cooperation, action plans, checking of the implementation processes, etc., so this needs to be concretely done, as it is done, as I said, in the sector of the defence.

Host: Okay, well, you also mentioned the Crossroads of Peace. That’s an interesting initiative. However, it could also be considered, ironic in the sense that, a state in the Caucasus, which is quite, fragile, is talking about Crossroads of Peace, the same way that Cyprus happens to be in the Eastern Mediterranean. Cyprus has its own issues, however, Cyprus is also located in a very volatile region in itself. So, can you very briefly just tell us about the philosophy behind the Crossroads of Peace?

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: The idea of the project of Crossroads of Peace was proposed by the Prime Minister of Armenia in October 2023, in Tbilisi. There was Tbilisi Silk Road Forum, and the Armenian Prime Minister made such a proposal. So, the philosophy of this, project is that, the region, instead of being a hotbed of conflicts, disagreements, wars, and, suffering, has the potential of becoming a region, an area, a zone of cooperation, economic cooperation, peaceful engagement, opening of transport routes—be this, railways, pipelines, electricity lines, all communication routes that are running through the region are basically intersecting in Armenia. Armenia is in the center of the region.

And artificially circumventing Armenia, just, because, there are some disagreements, let’s say, or, hostility towards Armenia, is not helping at all in making the region, something of peace or cooperation. Therefore, Armenia’s proposal is to, follow this trajectory of cooperation, economic cooperation, which would also contribute largely to peaceful understanding, between the countries and cooperation between the countries.

Now, Armenia has no disagreements or problems with its two neighbors, with Iran and Georgia. We have had traditionally very close relationships, and the borders are still continuing to be closed with Turkey, and borders with Azerbaijan need to be still fully demarcated, and, a peace agreement needs to be signed.

Host: So, where are we on that, Armenia-Azerbaijan talks?

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: I’ll jump on that. So, Armenia proposes that, let’s welcome this initiative, the Crossroads of Peace, and, contribute to not only the regional development, but it will become sort of, a juncture for the bigger, international crossroads. So, running from, further east, coming from India, from China, all the way going to the west, through the Caucasus region, to the west, to Europe, or to the Mediterranean, and from the south, where we are talking about the Gulf, Persian Gulf countries, running all the way to the north, to Europe, through Georgia, and to Russia, we’re talking about this connection.

So, the potential, of the crossroads, if they are realized, if they are embraced, if the idea is impressed by all countries, are immense. Thankfully there has been a very much, there has been a lot of positive reaction to it, including, by the way, from, Greece and Cyprus. Georgia and Iran have also reacted positively.

So, we need to ultimately, persuade our colleagues especially in the east, and of course, Turkey can be of utmost importance in this. Once everybody agrees, this will be a great idea which can be implemented. But let’s see how we, progress in terms of the peace agreement that which is being negotiated between Armenia and Azerbaijan, as you asked now. So, I will immediately jump on that.

Regarding the peace agreement what we have right now is that, there is apparently a draft agreement which has been negotiated over the past few years. 15 articles out of, 17, if I’m not mistaken, they have been agreed upon. Two articles are not yet finalized. Armenia has sent its version of these articles to Azerbaijan a couple of months ago. We haven’t had yet answers from Azerbaijan. So, this is where we stand, roughly. Of course, also very important is that the demarcation and delimitation commissions from both sides, from Armenia and Azerbaijan, are meeting, and, there is work going on in this sphere. A lot needs to be done because only a very small part of the border has been demarcated in the north, north-eastern part. So, plus, there is also the presence, of EU observers, which contributes to peace, but, unfortunately, we have heard from Azerbaijani side, sometimes, very aggressive and hostile reaction to this mission, which raises eyebrows because clearly. Recently the Prime Minister of Armenia wrote an article, and one of the questions that he poses to himself and answers is, “Is Armenia going to attack Azerbaijan?” Of course not. Of course not.

No one reasonable can even think that Armenia would be attacking Azerbaijan. And, the Azerbaijani attitude of questioning the European mission’s existence within the territory of Armenia is raising a lot of questions because the mission is not, doing anything against Azerbaijan. The mission is, simply contributing to the safety and security of the borders between Armenia and Azerbaijan. They are neutral. They are not working for Armenia or for Azerbaijan nor against Armenia or against Azerbaijan.

So, there is no exclusivist agenda. It’s rather engaging. And, we would have, it would have been better if there was a similar, mission, for example, in Azerbaijan. And initially, if I’m not mistaken, initially, Azerbaijan right in the beginning, agreed to hosting such a mission in 2022 when it was proposed, but then it backtracked.

But this is not the most important thing. The most important thing is the political will and need for confidence-building, whether Azerbaijan will find in itself strength enough to move forward, normalize relations with Armenia, sign the peace agreement, put aside its aggressive, hostile rhetoric. The latter is very much concerning because, for example the New Year message of their president, and then later on in his January interview to media outlets, was very alarming again. Because for some time there was more or less refrained language vis-à-vis Armenia, but then once again, we heard a very hostile and aggressive rhetoric, containing territorial claims towards Armenia, questioning Armenia’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, and, interpreting historical events in their very imaginative way, completely disconnected from the realities. It’s not constructive.

So this kind of rhetoric, and, constantly threatening Armenia, is not constructive. It’s not going to help. You don’t choose neighbors. You have the neighbors you have to coexist and cooperate. And, Armenia’s stance is not to reciprocate in terms of this polemics, not to counter-argue. There are indeed so many counter-arguments that can be put forward that, we can have a series of such, podcasts, and, we won’t finish with that, in terms of, discussing how Azerbaijan was originated and how it developed, etc. It’s not our business.

The task of the diplomats and the governments is to establish relations and to cooperate to the welfare of the peoples, and not to aggravate their suffering, and not to deteriorate their conditions, but to ameliorate their conditions. This is the task of every government, which is not to ensure its longevity, thanks to the suffering of the people, the nationalistic feelings.

So, Armenians, as I said, Armenian government position is to, adhere to the peace agenda, as much as possible. Of course, in peace—it’s like, tango, so you have to have a partner to dance with. If the other side is constantly rebuffing, slapping, trying to humiliate, you won’t move, you won’t move much ahead. So, we have to, be cautious also.

And this is another issue, related to this last question that you raised, because Azerbaijan has been questioning Armenia’s, defence reforms, questioning that Armenia doesn’t have the right to buy any types of weapons. And Armenia has been implementing defence reforms, and, it has every sovereign right to it. It’s every country’s leadership’s right and duty to make sure that the security of its own people is guaranteed, is ensured, and, and for that purpose, acquisition or purchasing of any defensive systems or capacities is an inherent right of every country.

So, questioning that right, or appealing that Armenia should be disarmed, as if “Armenia should be de-Nazified”, as if Armenians’ state is “ingrained in Nazism”. These are, very, very concerning comments, and I hope those who make such comments don’t believe in those comments.

So, it’s our right, Armenia’s right, of course, and duty to be as resilient as possible, and this is normal.

We are not raising the question, why has Azerbaijan since 2020, been arming itself, yeah, in very accelerated mode acquiring, a lot of weaponry, very advanced offensive weaponry, from around the world, and not from one direction, and continuously and consistently? And why? And if you are doing that, why are you then questioning if the other side is trying to make sure that its survival is not questioned? So, this is simple logic.

Host: Well, it has to show signs of goodwill, such as the ongoing case of, Armenians who are still held captive and on, trial, in Baku, captive from Nagorno-Karabakh, and, that has to be shown to the world, whether it’s in a fair and transparent way, in order for Azerbaijan to show some goodwill towards world public opinion.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: The world is witnessing, what’s happening in Baku. We’re trying, with our statements, not to make the plight of the prisoners worse. And this is what has become an issue in the Armenian internal political discussion, into which I don’t want to get engaged, but everybody sees that the situation is getting worse and worse. These are fake trials, and hopefully, they will be, ended as soon as possible, and the detainees, the prisoners, will be returned as soon as possible.

We see that there is a lot of suffering in their faces, in their condition. Even with unarmed eyes you can see what’s going on. Unfortunately, we also know what’s going on with the Armenian, Christian heritage in Nagorno-Karabakh. This is also something extremely worrying, with UNESCO having no access to these area and this vandalism is not going to help anyone, the Azerbaijanis as well, and in the long term, it’s not going to help at all.

Host: So, goodwill gestures have to come, from that side, on a diplomatic, legal, and, so many other levels.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Absolutely and Armenia is extending its hands of cooperation, is trying to not to exclude any topic. All topics are being discussed. Every topic is being discussed, and, we are not running away from any conversation on this topic. Simply, not everything can be publicized, and not everything needs to be sent to the press, including, in the case of, the prisoners, as well as the cultural heritage. So, these topics are discussed, but it’s, it’s another matter how successful or how impactful these discussions are…

Host: So this also shows the necessity of how much not only Armenia, but in general, the Caucasus, needs to have peace, and peace has to become priority, and to move away from hostilities, in general, not just small skirmishes or events or on a diplomatic or political level, a general concept of peace, in order for the whole area, as you mentioned earlier, for the whole region to, move forward.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan:  Sure. This zero-sum mentality that, my opponent’s loss is my victory, which has been, dominating the political mindset of some of the leaders in our region. This needs to be erased. And we need to do everything that a win-win situation would be beneficial to everybody.

We have seen suffering for a very long time. We can discuss the sufferings. These sufferings are still going on. There are still, more than 120,000 Nagorno-Karabakh Armenians refugees in Armenia. So, these are topics that need to be, of course, discussed as well. But in an engaging manner, and with the hope that we can reach some sort of an agreement, without undermining each other constantly and without threatening at least our mutual existence. From the Armenian side, there is no such threat against Azerbaijan. So, let’s be clear about that. What we need to do is to bring Azerbaijan more to a constructive field.

Host: So, 50% of the work of, building peace, has been achieved, or is on that path. It’s just that the whole region has to adopt, the concept of peace, will, and confidence.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Most of the agreement that we’re talking about, the peace agreement between Armenia and Azerbaijan, I mean, most of the articles have been agreed upon. So, it’s not, if we’re talking factually, it’s not 50%, it’s even 90% of the text that has been agreed upon. And Armenia was proposing, or is proposing, to sign the agreement on the basis of the agreed-upon articles but Azerbaijan is not up to that. So, it hasn’t yet agreed to this proposal and is trying to drag on as much as possible. Let’s see. I mean, it’s an ongoing process. I cannot comment too much because I’m not involved in these negotiations personally.

Host: But a lot of the burden falls on the growing diplomatic community of Armenia. What Armenia needs to have is a clear voice within the EU, within, within the rest of the world.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: And our task in this case, my task here is to enhance, was to enhance Armenia-Cyprus relations, and to continue this work with the Greek side also, which is, which has been progressing. And I hope that the results are good, or will be good. Let’s see. This is a continuous work, and, at no point in our career, we are saying that “that’s it, that’s sufficient”. It’s never sufficient. The diplomatic relations is a process, or are a process, which are being built on constantly by, on your successors’ work, and on adhering to, or passing it to the successors.

So, the predecessors, successors… this is a process. This is a long process. It’s an ongoing process. You have to take into account what you have gotten, and you have to also pass on what you have done to your successors. This is part of our work.

Host: Well, 2025 will be interesting, to say the least. Hopefully, it’ll be a year of developments and progress in many areas, as many as possible. Your Excellency, once again, thank you very much for being with us and for this very informative talk.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Thank you very much once again for hosting me, and looking forward to seeing you again.

Published by Armenpress, original at https://armenpress.am/en/article/1213072